I was going to say, I still have a 5 pack of Lightscribe DVDs unopened in a box specifically to save something "special" but obviously nothing has ever been special enough to warrant using them. And now that they aren't made anymore it would feel downright sacrilegious to use them, not to mention 4.7GB of capacity is just not enough for anything nowadays really.
4.7GB is quite enough for a standalone Linux DVD (for devices that still have DVD drives). Plus some cool art.
Might be a good idea to preserve a known-working distro for some old PC, especially for discontinued or less-used architectures. Just saw a discussion the other day about finding 32-bit Debian for an old laptop.
There are definitely people that collect older media for use in the retro setups.
I constantly buy New Old Stock when I find Floppies, Mini Disc, Cassettes, Zip Disks, hell just about anything. We're a weird bunch of collectors but we're out there.
Back in the day, there was a Yamaha burner with a feature called "DiscT@2". It could burn images and text onto the unused area of a CD-ROM. I just had to get it and did so, and I had a bit of fun with it.
I still have mine (in a firewire enclosure)! Last tested the DiscT@2 feature about four years ago, at the time qpxtool had a utility for burning the imagery under Linux.
The caddies were just a simple loading mechanism, with a spring door like a floppy disc. I suspect they had the life they did because someone was hoping that we would all buy ultra-expensive caddies for our collections instead of moving discs in and out of cases.
Caddies were fairly common in early CD-ROM drives. Tray-loading (and, even later, slot-loading) drives were a later development.
One theory I've seen is that caddies were developed in part to protect valuable data CDs from accidental damage, and faded in popularity as software became more affordable. Early multimedia software could be quite expensive, with some titles running into the hundreds of dollars.
I gave this a go about 3 years ago when the hackday project[1] first got published, it turns out choosing the parameters is _very_ disc dependent, since every disc is a little bit different (possibly even between lots of the same type, not published anywhere, and quite sensitive. I got it working for the CD-R's I got, but it took ~50 experiments to get ok parameters (the image was pretty good, but still wobbly in some areas of the disc).
That said, the end result is pretty cool, if hard to photograph.
Congrats to the author - a few decades ago I attempted the same, with very little success (using data tracks, not audio, which might have been my mistake).
The challenge (as I saw it) was that the drive has the option to toggle the state of the laser every sector, effectively letting it invert all your data if it wants to. To have control of the laser state, you need to be able to do perfect predictions if the drive will toggle or not.
Any unpredicted bit leads to the laser state toggling and the image being ruined.
Assuming control of the decision to toggle, could that be used to draw something even while burning useful data? Of course you would have very low precision, but still. Maybe an outline or something.
After many years without an optical drive in my home, I bought an external one within the last year or so. It's one of those things that occasionally comes up, and is useful to have around, and I figured the longer I waited the more difficult it would become to find a decent one.
Optical media is unmatched for archival purposes. I have photos, videos, and documents I'd be devastated to lose. I simply cannot trust magnetic or solid-state storage over the long term.
Luckily blurays are still somewhat cheap in Japan so I stock up when I visit. Stored properly they should outlive me.
If you care about your data, you need to have a regular process where you check the copies and remake them from time to time.
Hopefully some of the copies live on after your death. Optical does well, but I've seen reasonably treated cd-rs degrade, and well treated pressed cds decay. Sometimes some mistake in production takes years to become apparent, but results in a fixed lifetime below the estimates.
Blu rays are meant to be like the old M-Discs and they should last ages. I've been burning my archives to BDXL discs for years and never had any issues reading them back.
Regular optical media can suffer corrosion of the aluminium reflector layer, and breakdown of the dye. Sure, they do make archival grade discs (e.g. with a gold layer) but they're expensive.
I don't even remember if the CD/DVD drive I have in my desktop is a writer or not. I distinctly remember purchasing one about a decade ago, but I think I was looking for an external one.
Hell, I'm not even sure if it's plugged in at the moment, I may have unplugged it to plug in another hard drive...
I had a DVD Burner in my self build PC and discovered a year ago that it wasn’t plugged in and that it must have been like this for years. That was the moment I decided it’s time to remove it.
I fondly remember LightScribe, that was a pretty awesome technology.
I was going to say, I still have a 5 pack of Lightscribe DVDs unopened in a box specifically to save something "special" but obviously nothing has ever been special enough to warrant using them. And now that they aren't made anymore it would feel downright sacrilegious to use them, not to mention 4.7GB of capacity is just not enough for anything nowadays really.
4.7GB is quite enough for a standalone Linux DVD (for devices that still have DVD drives). Plus some cool art.
Might be a good idea to preserve a known-working distro for some old PC, especially for discontinued or less-used architectures. Just saw a discussion the other day about finding 32-bit Debian for an old laptop.
Someone would probably buy them on eBay for a good price.
There are definitely people that collect older media for use in the retro setups. I constantly buy New Old Stock when I find Floppies, Mini Disc, Cassettes, Zip Disks, hell just about anything. We're a weird bunch of collectors but we're out there.
Looks like you can still buy 10-packs on eBay for £15, not really collectible yet it seems :-)
Back in the day, there was a Yamaha burner with a feature called "DiscT@2". It could burn images and text onto the unused area of a CD-ROM. I just had to get it and did so, and I had a bit of fun with it.
It seemed especially badass when the model number was the CRW-F1, released in 2002.
It was also cool because the activity would blink purple (orange + blue) during writing. This set it apart when blue LEDs were all the rage.
I still have mine (in a firewire enclosure)! Last tested the DiscT@2 feature about four years ago, at the time qpxtool had a utility for burning the imagery under Linux.
Same. I had one of these in ‘98/‘99. The disc didn’t even go into a standard tray—-you had to use a caddy that completely enveloped the disc.
any idea what the caddy did?
some sort of feedback for rotation angle maybe?
The caddies were just a simple loading mechanism, with a spring door like a floppy disc. I suspect they had the life they did because someone was hoping that we would all buy ultra-expensive caddies for our collections instead of moving discs in and out of cases.
Caddies were fairly common in early CD-ROM drives. Tray-loading (and, even later, slot-loading) drives were a later development.
One theory I've seen is that caddies were developed in part to protect valuable data CDs from accidental damage, and faded in popularity as software became more affordable. Early multimedia software could be quite expensive, with some titles running into the hundreds of dollars.
I gave this a go about 3 years ago when the hackday project[1] first got published, it turns out choosing the parameters is _very_ disc dependent, since every disc is a little bit different (possibly even between lots of the same type, not published anywhere, and quite sensitive. I got it working for the CD-R's I got, but it took ~50 experiments to get ok parameters (the image was pretty good, but still wobbly in some areas of the disc).
That said, the end result is pretty cool, if hard to photograph.
[1] https://hackaday.io/project/186303-burning-pictures-on-a-com...
30+ years of computer and I had no idea you could do this. These are the kind of things I get excited about!
Cool idea. Like a more accessible version of lightscribe. (if you use a dual-sided disc)
I assume this isn't possible with a DVD/bluray due to the much much smaller pits.
I suppose these shapes could be made incredibly detailed. There must be some kind of application for that.
Its basically a bespoke diffraction grating printer, indeed. So, you could probably print holographic images?
This github issue mentions a paper about holographic images on a DVD: https://github.com/arduinocelentano/cdimage/issues/14
But I can't actually imagine what it would look like. Sounds amazing though!
It’s a slightly more involved project, but tmbinc managed to write arbitrary pictures to a DVD surface:
https://debugmo.de/2022/05/fjita-the-project-that-wasnt-mean...
Congrats to the author - a few decades ago I attempted the same, with very little success (using data tracks, not audio, which might have been my mistake).
The challenge (as I saw it) was that the drive has the option to toggle the state of the laser every sector, effectively letting it invert all your data if it wants to. To have control of the laser state, you need to be able to do perfect predictions if the drive will toggle or not.
Any unpredicted bit leads to the laser state toggling and the image being ruined.
Assuming control of the decision to toggle, could that be used to draw something even while burning useful data? Of course you would have very low precision, but still. Maybe an outline or something.
Yes. You get the option to toggle the laser every 33 bytes, which is a lot of controllable toggles to make cool patterns.
It would be awesome if you could encode data using this technique
Just burn a QR-code.
Are not visible pictures encoded data?
I love the Github username!
I gather it's a reference to the pop singer Adriano Celentano?
Ol rait!
Oh wow, the readme to one of the mentioned projects is in KOI8. It's been decades since I last saw that encoding used.
+1 for the GitHub user name :)
Can it still hold data?
I assume no https://github.com/arduinocelentano/cdimage/issues/16
LightScribe reinvented?
No. It is reinventing DiscT@2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DiscT@2
Right. See [1]
It was really slow, but it did work.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LightScribe
If only this existed 15 years ago when I got rid of my burners.
I still use my bluray to rip audio CDs... Pretty oldschool but with navidrome and audiobookshelf it is a pretty solid workflow...
See https://pilabor.com/blog/2022/10/audio-cd-ripping-hardware/
After many years without an optical drive in my home, I bought an external one within the last year or so. It's one of those things that occasionally comes up, and is useful to have around, and I figured the longer I waited the more difficult it would become to find a decent one.
Optical media is unmatched for archival purposes. I have photos, videos, and documents I'd be devastated to lose. I simply cannot trust magnetic or solid-state storage over the long term.
Luckily blurays are still somewhat cheap in Japan so I stock up when I visit. Stored properly they should outlive me.
If you care about your data, you need to have a regular process where you check the copies and remake them from time to time.
Hopefully some of the copies live on after your death. Optical does well, but I've seen reasonably treated cd-rs degrade, and well treated pressed cds decay. Sometimes some mistake in production takes years to become apparent, but results in a fixed lifetime below the estimates.
I have so many CDs/DVDs that cannot be read anymore that I stopped using them for backups.
Blu rays are meant to be like the old M-Discs and they should last ages. I've been burning my archives to BDXL discs for years and never had any issues reading them back.
Regular optical media can suffer corrosion of the aluminium reflector layer, and breakdown of the dye. Sure, they do make archival grade discs (e.g. with a gold layer) but they're expensive.
I don't even remember if the CD/DVD drive I have in my desktop is a writer or not. I distinctly remember purchasing one about a decade ago, but I think I was looking for an external one.
Hell, I'm not even sure if it's plugged in at the moment, I may have unplugged it to plug in another hard drive...
I had a DVD Burner in my self build PC and discovered a year ago that it wasn’t plugged in and that it must have been like this for years. That was the moment I decided it’s time to remove it.
It did! I remember playing with 'Disc T@2' when I was a kid. I had a lightscribe then too, so I put pictures on both sides
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